Sadly the State of Minnesota is in complete default on school funding. It disgusts me. It is not right and it is not fair. Teachers deserve better.

See examples of teacher salaries in this article we ran last spring: http://oakdale.patch.com/articles/public-hearing-on-school-district-622-budget-cuts-tonight

regarding the teachers who are making less than in the past...welcome to the club...i have not gotten a raise in the last several years, have not received my regular bonus and have had mandatory days off with no pay thereby decreasing my income also. when the economy finally turns around and i am making more money i would be more than happy to give a raise to the teachers also, until then, we're all in the same boat

I, like Diane, haven't had a pay increase the last 3 years so I can sympathize with the teachers. However, I think it's ridiculous that they should have a contract that guarantees them a pay raise, regardless of the quality of the education they're giving. I get a performance appraisal each year and any salary increase, when available, is based off that appraisal and not a guarantee.

It's also crazy that because you simply obtain a Masters degree, you automatically receive a pay increase. The degree doesn't equate to you being a more qualified or a better teacher. The whole system of steps and lanes isn't relevant today and a teacher’s compensation package needs to be overhauled to be more in line with the private sector.

Even when the Economy was good and everybody was getting bonuses and raises teachers were still getting paid exactly what they are today....They do not make alot of money so lets keep it real. They are fantastic people who work extremely long hours and deal with our kids everyday. I don't know what I would do if i had to teach my kid everything they teach them and everything that the school have to offer. I would go out of my mind if my teenager was home all day with me begging me to teach them everything they need to know to survive in this world. they need to be respected..... They do good work.

Teri

Teachers did go to college for five years...they are fully educated in the field that they teach...Glad that your husband is continuing on with his education so that he can make more money. This is the only country where Education is not its top priority. Our kids are now competing with other countries for jobs. Their competition isn't sitting next to them in school like it was for us. Lets pay teachers by the hour then.... I know my sons teachers stay late for my child and I'm not the only parent that has a child that struggles in Physics, Science, math, History....We as parents are supposed to make sure that our kids are educated. I will pay good money to have someone teach my child everything that they need to know to survive in an extremely competititive working world....How much is your child worth to you? If you don't want to pay teachers to do the hard work.... then everybody keep your children at home and teach them everything yourself....Problem solved on how much teachers need to get paid....We won't have any. LOOK at all the money we would save....You won't be able to go to work though cuz you will have to stay home and teach your own children yourself...

I think from the the majority of the comments above, teachers and their union representing them---Education Minnesota---should start to understand that if they want to be treated like other professions they need to accept the idea of accountability as opposed to entitlement. The success of an individual in any profession should be determined by their performance, not by guaranteed salary increases, an advanced degree, or especially by that educational sacred cow---tenure. Yet Education Minnesota is all about keeping the status quo, regardless of the economic conditions plaguing their employers. I want to emphasize that I do believe teachers serve an important role with our children but when you were deciding what to do with your career, money could never have been your primary motive. And please, don't use the usual union line that these kinds of comments about teachers are anti children. You guys play that card way too often.
I would ask the teachers in the article above to go to Education Minnesota President Tom Dooer and ask him to reduce his and his management team's salary, or to stop forcing teachers to pay mandatory dues--much of which go to millions in political donations for their political(can you say Dayton and DFL) allies, and those great TV adds telling us how the union does so much for our children. Until you are ready to give up your entitlement mentality and accept performance and accountability, you will get little sympathy here.

The dues are not what is killing teachers... it's paying over 600 dollars a month in healthcare costs and never having a raise in the past 4 years. Teachers go to school for 4 years to obtain their degree and many further their education with a Master's degree because education is IMPORTANT to them. Being the best teacher they can be is #1. Yet, they are not paid #1. By saying, "my husband lost is job and is back in school"-- did he have a degree in the first place? Just curious? If the whole economy is suffering, why don't we deduct administration pay? Yet, they get paid more and more every year and the teacher's suffer. Look to see just how much the Superintendent is making-- it would astonish you. Teachers are losing their homes, not able to make ends meet... imagine if doctors or our police department never had a raise and made less and less money every year due to no raise and healthcare cost. What would happen to our protection and lives? How would healthcare be in hospitals and clinics? Imagine????

Our teachers deserve more... they stay late and work now many jobs. One teacher I know is a single mother of two teens-- she works 3 jobs. She puts in over 50 hours of work at school, does tutoring on the side for pennies, and also teaches online classes just to make ends meet. Out of 2 paychecks a month-- one goes all to her house/rent payment. How does one live that way and feed her own kids, support their needs, etc? They deserve more than that.

Tammy in your naive world you obviously do not understand how a business works. In business you do not choose your customers. You work with what you have. You do not choose economic and market conditions that affect your business. If I do not perform I loose my customers and eventually my job. Worse yet even if I perform my job or I may loose it or not get paid, or loose benefits because the economy just does not cooperate. A teacher --especially in this Minnesota--is protected by the union---one that fights every day as much as it can from accepting actual performance criteria by which to judge its teachers. The inflexibility of this Union is a bigger contributor to many of the problems the teachers face today than anything else. Tammy If things were as simple as equating children and education with fruit you might have a point and maybe even you could run for elective office.

http://voices.yahoo.com/teachers-deserve-paid-more-444994.html
OPEN YOUR MIND PEOPLE... or better yet. Have a heart and do what is right for your children.

Being a husband of a teacher I can honestly see both sides of the debate. Let's not forget that many of our teachers paid the high costs of getting a good education and that they are professionals. Some people can look at these salaries and suggest that they are in-fact getting paid well. Compare that to someone with a similar education/experience in corporate America and you'll start to see the differences.
Teaching is a tough and thankless profession, people need to sit back and realize that these individuals are trying their utmost to give our kids a chance of surviving in the real world, which, as we all know can be a cruel place both emotionally and financially. Without teachers, what chance does this nation have of being as great as we all believe it is? None! Teachers are the backbone of society – it's a responsibility that only a few hard-working and devoted individuals take. The others, well, they sit back and point fingers. We all have a responsibility to push our children in the right direction, but teachers take it on themselves with late nights and early starts to give our kids hope – especially when they’re failing. Anyone that works hard and performs well at their task deserves to be treated fairly with a structure of good and competitively priced healthcare, 401 match and the chance of a salary increase. Teaching is not a company tied to profits – which some of you fail to see! WAKE UP!

Davea,
You chose your profession. You know the aspects of business. Teaching is not a "business". You want education to suffer like your business. That is what you think about schools and value of education?

Teachers don't get master's degrees to move over a lane on the salary schedule. They geet master's degrees because they care about staying current on cutting edge educational practices. Unfortunately, like in the private sector, public schools don't build training into the benefits package of teachers. Teachers have to pay to stay current. This is also antiquated, as one respondent suggested steps and lanes are. If you would like to re-tool the system, you must be prepared to pay for ongoing training and education.
Additionally, I have not met one teacher who has shirked the request to be held accountable for they work they do every day. The difficulty is that you can not quanitify a relationship or a piece of lifesaving advice that a teacher gives a child. Reading scores and math scores are only part of the evidence for teacher quality and there is no fair scale to measure the quantifiable effects of the interpersonal skills a teacher gives a student.

Brad I feel for you, but it is also obvious you have never had a job outside the sheltered world of education. DO you think teachers are the only ones who work late or have to supplement their income---or loose their homes, or pay a percentage of their health care costs. Big deal you got a 4 year education and a masters degree that's great and I sure those diplomas look good on your wall (and by the way artificially determine your pay) I have a 4 year degree and an MBA but I don't for a minute think that entitles me to more than a guy who finishes trade school. I have to earn it. if you don't accept the conditions that teachers live with do something else. See how tough the real world might be. To your reference, it is the entitlement mindset that is killing teachers.

Kev on January 20th, 2011 at 8:50 pm -I’ll give a few reasons with supportive facts.
First, we work more hours than a normal job (even including the summer off). Teachers are in school 40 hrs, but let's just say 35 for the sake of math. In addition to this, we spend AT LEAST 15 hrs. per wk preparing lessons, checking papers, writing and scoring tests, etc. That is 50 hrs per wk with no extra pay and no over overtime. That is AT LEAST10 extra hrs a wk of extra work over a normal 40 hr wk during the school year. Work 10 hrs extra a wk X 42 wks = 420 hrs a yr worked extra.
We get summers off, so we get 40 hrs a week for 10 weeks.Get 40 hrs off a week X 10 wks off = 400 hrs off for summer break.420 hrs worked extra per yr minus 400 hrs off =20 hrs MORE worked per yr by teachers than by a normal 40 r a week job.
This does not even count meetings, conferences, etc. that we have to attend. Nor does it take into account the fact that we usually spend even more time per week than that.

Kev continues....
We get paid less than what we could in the private sector in a non teaching job with equivalent education: Instead of teaching math and physics, I could be an engineer and making more money with a bachelors degree than I would teaching with a masters (and not have spent the $30,000 + for the masters degree).

Finally, it is a very difficult and strenuous job: I have architecture and engineering degrees and was involved in those fields (as well as a manager in the buisness world) before going into teaching: I can attest that working in engineering, architecture, and business is CAKE WALK compared to the work involved in teaching
p.s. I just want to state that I am not complaining about being a teacher. I made the choice and do not regret it because I love teaching. It is underpaid for the large amount of work and education involved, however.

I am a teacher also. Teachers have to do extensive training and take a series of exams for competency already. I took a total of 6 exams with something called "Praxis Exams" which teachers are familiar with.That is just one reason why some are totally misinformed about the teaching profession. Daily lesson planning and weekly unit planning take several additional hours every night to prepare for the next days and weeks teaching . So, some that would say that many teachers are not qualified is simply false.

Agree that teachers are underpaid for the level of education and workload (none work a 40 hour week during the school year -- it is typically 60 or more after they finish going to meetings, planning, grading papers, meeting with parents, etc.)

I taught for a brief time, and it was the most exhausting (mentally, emotionally) work I've ever done. I was paid much more in the private sector to go home with my sanity intact every day.

We can decide, as a society, whether we want to compensate teachers (and attract the best and brightest to teach our kids) . . . or not. That's the choice.

Personally, I think we should be treating these people fairly. They work hard at a thankless (see some of the comments here for examples), and much maligned profession. Frankly, I'm surprised anyone talented decides to do it, especially given the constant bashing they take from some segments of the public.

To an earlier comment. I tried to give my teacher a "thank you gift" but the school says that we are not allowed to give our teachers any extra gift for helping our kids. I am at a loss....Are we a family based country or are we corporate America... I know that every year we fall down the ladder in America and get further away from being a super power. I cant help but say it goes back to priorities and values. what is really important in your life. YOUR FAMILY.... I have a problem with our teachers living in low income neighborhoods and living off the bare minimum. They didn't take a vow of priesthood.... They are the most beautiful people I have ever met in this world. Get your priorities straight.....Its not about the money.. Its about them being able to go home to a HOME and pay thier bills after all their hard work...I live in a low income neighborhood. Guess who are my neighbors... TEACHERS... WHY????? They leave before I do and they get home after I do.

I support everybody's right to fair compensation and to improve that compensation in order to keep pace with the cost of living: private business owners, public employees, labor, job creators. The infighting which is apparent in the comments is counter-productive and divisive. In this case, the right to fair compensation is my own that is in question. I have worked in the district for 27 years. I have ALWAYS been content with how I've been compensated and felt lucky to have a job that I enjoy. I've enjoyed my benefits, my salary and generally the good will of the district. The exception to that contentment came only this year - when the school board appears to be stalling for some reason of their own on our contract settlement. I don't see where the impasse serves much purpose but it does mean hundreds of dollars less each month than what we were getting 2 or 3 years ago. All of us - teachers, bankers, waiters, nurses and on and on - need the financial security not only to be able to enjoy life but to keep the economy going: I can't buy anything discretionary when I have no money after paying bills. My budget has been set for years and it has been close but manageable. That changed when my salary droped suddenly; and discouragement grows when you feel that the reasons for that drop are artificial. Teachers are no better and no worse than the rest of the labor force. But on this question, nobody should have their wages reduced - not teachers, not anybody.

Jim,

Good point. You are right - taxes go up to pay for services - education, police, fire etc. I pay property taxes in St Paul. I vote for levy referenda - knowing it will increase my tax burden. The increase per tax year has never been more than about $50 - spread out over 12 months. Without a contract, my loss this year has been over $1080 over this period 2 years ago, and that loss will continue to grow. In this situation, nobody needs to increase taxes: the levy passed last fall - a levy which kept in place the levy set years back = it was a continuation of an old tax, not the introduction of a new one. I am sensitive to your point. When I vote to increase my taxes for schools, I am still mindful of some teachers my daughter had who angered me for their lack of professionalism. But I can't allow the negative experiences to condemn the entire profession. We are human, so we have some disreputable lawyers, doctors, dishwashers, waiters, teachers etc. That is the human condition. My salary does cost you & other taxpayers. At this point, I would be happy to get the salary I had two years ago. In absence of a contract, even that is denied. The district sits on a healthy fund balance. If we can't get a fair contract when the district is in the black, I don't know if it will ever happen. It is hopelessly trite - but true: we get what we pay for. If we cannot as a community support teachers, nurses, police etc., it does not bode well for the future.

So from your last comment you really don't mind if non-teachers (MINE) pay goes down and yours goes up.

That explains a lot, Thanks.

Jenny,

Please acccept my most humble apology. I was under the impression teachers pay come from taxes which are paid by residents that when increased reduce the residents net income. That is what David said.

I might add it would be best if all ISD 622 teachers live in ISD 622. David, living in St Paul, does not support ISD 622 but the St Paul school district. Residency requirements are a good thing. If you teach in ISD 622 you should proud and willing to face those residents whos kids you educate in the town you live in.

Most teachers do live in the community they teach in. David probably can't afford to move out of St. Paul... I grew up in St. Paul...I knew my opportunity to get out of St. Paul was an education.. I live in District 622. Our taxes are not that high....St. paul isn't all bad but the area that I grew up in has crimes commited daily by young adults. Why aren't they in school? If we want to live in a good community then we have to take care of it. I vote for every refferendum that comes up..Teachers got me where I am today. I know that...I'm educated...We all work long hours and we get paid for it so don't act like we don't....Teachers work day in and day out...They deserve respect..Teachers don't have entitlement... They can leave at any time and get fired at any time. Its the same in every profession...The teachers pay monthly dues to make sure they get due process when getting let go...Parents are always saying "That teacher needs to fired because that teacher held thier kid accountable for thier actions" Our kids are the ones with entitlement because both parents work and no one is home for the kids...They feel guilty because they are too busy trying to make so much money to have so much STUFF an TOYS...ridiculous. They have to blaim their childs behavior on someone. Teachers are getting the work done while we are out trying to keep up with the JONE'S. Downsize and stay home with your kids. quit compalining and put teachers on the pedestal they deserve to be on.

WOW....that is alot of money...Teachers make what a year?
If the Superintendent is making that much money teachers must be doing well also!!!! A car allowance? As a tax payer if we are paying their salary and we are allowed to know a teachers salary...seems fair to hear the salaries of all the education players...we need to get an accurate picture as to where our dollars are going...What's left over for the kids and supplies?

Jenny, what in your opinion is a healthy fund balance?

Do you think the teachers should set their salaries?

If you have a job, why are you complaining for a pay raise?

Do you realize how many people are out of any job OR underemployed?

Do you understand with the right education you to could be a superentendant of a district?

If all you want is more salary and the private sector pays so much more why don't you go to work in the private sector and cash in, job security in the private sector isn't what you have in teaching?

What price do you place on a secure job?

Have you ever talked to a private sector employee who was layed off looking for work? Have you asked them if they would work as a teacher for less money? Have you asked them if they would be complaining for more money IF they had a job?

Do you think taxpayers living on unemployement, much less than your salary, should have to pay higher taxes so you can make more money?

Do you know how many young teachers are unemployed and would LOVE to have your job?

Thank you for the suggestion, but I will pass. I very much enjoy working with kids.

I am done debating. I know the truth and I pray someday that everyone will. Teachers rock! Thank you teachers for your dedication to a difficult job that is the very definition of thankless!

Jen is following the traditional path of public employee union debate. When clearly beaten by the facts, 1) Try to equate your self to others in the workforce who are measured by performance as opposed to entitlement 2) resort to castigating those who are successful like the Superintendent in an effort to create a class warfare mentality, 3) Use the welfare of children to help justify that entitlement.

Your antiquated Union has taught you well, but you cannot prevail with this tired propaganda.

Here's another perspective, I was having a discussion with a recentlly retired State employee. He complained the last 2 years of employment were without a pay increase.

My response: after working 44 years in engineering the last 3 years of my employement were part time jobs making 1/2 of my FT salary.

I don't disagree with anyone when they say everyone should get pay increases every year. However there is "REALITY" out there where millions are not working at all and millions are not earning enought to keep up with taxes. Taxes which are providing pay increases to Government workers.

Is that really fair?

Renee,, I appreciate your comment. I have no problem paying taxes to keep my community, which is 622, in great shape. Houses are foreclosing around me and the value of my house has depreciated by 50,000.. I don't want it to decrease any more. I still pay the same taxes as when I first bought my house in 2005. Hmm.. taxes stayed the same but the value of my house went down....I also am an engineer. We make very good money so Jim I don't know what you are complaining about. share the wealth so we can live in a good community. Thank you teachers for taking care of businees while I'm out at work.... I have the same degree as you math teachers and I make a whole lot more than you. you are awesome for doing what you do.

Renee.. I hope you didn't misunderstand me. I have no problem paying taxes. I contribute to our schools and I commend teachers for doing what they do. I wouldn't even mind if our taxes went up. I want to live in a good community with great teachers. I am all for paying teachers more and also paying more taxes. I'm tired of all the houses going into forclosure around me. What I was saying is that I have the same degree as the math teachers do and I make double if not triple what they make. I am wiling to pay whatever it takes to keep the fantastic teachers that we have in our schools in THIS community. The teachers we have have gone above and beyond the call of duty for my kids. I tried to give them a litttle extra but its not legal apparantely so I donated supplies to the school. I am doing my part to keep the community safe and growing. I was just upset with the other engineer yapping about how much teachers make and they should just be happy with it. He is in NO position to preach about living modestly or what it feels like to live in a teachers shoe for one minute. Engineers make good money. Be happy that you make good money. count it all while your kids are at school get taught what they need to know to make it in the work field. Pay teachers more.....or suffer the consequences and I don't want to be the one who said "I told you so" when you have young kids running around ripping off all your cool STUFF in your beautiful home.

Kindra I really appreciate teachers as well and I am sure you are very good at your job. I am wondering however if you support your union in opposing performance over seniority in teaching? Minnesota is one of only 11 states that force school districts in times of financial constraints to use the “first in first out” concept when forced to eliminate teaching jobs. This is opposed to relying on a true and objective performance process in determining who would face job elimination. Districts are forced to protect the most senior teachers and eliminate the newest ones, regardless of performance. The union says they have adopted an evaluation process (this was forced on them by the legislature last year) but that won’t be fully implemented until 2014 in all schools. Keep in mind however that a recent study of evaluation processes coordinated by teacher’s unions in the US show that 95% of the evaluations came back as “exemplary”---hardly an objective outcome.
So Kindra you are correct I do not know what teacher’s do outside of classroom time. But most teachers, and their union who only live in the world of education have no concept of what other people do in their jobs, how they are judged in those jobs and then the consequences of good or poor performance.

The process for evaluating and removing a teacher who has been tenured is tedious and, in reality, puts administrators in an uncomfortable position. The administrators must document the mistakes that a bad teacher makes and must put the teacher on an improvement plan. For many administrators, this is awkward, uncomfortable and confrontational. Additionally, the administrators must carefully record each step so they themselves don’t put their jobs in jeopardy failing to follow protocol. Finally, for many administrators, it has been years since they were in the classroom. Many of them don’t actually like teaching and so, become administrators as that is one of the only ways to advance in the world of education. For an administrator who hasn’t taught in years evaluating teachers is challenging. It is much easier to avoid the difficult tenure process altogether. Unfortunately, for most teachers, an administrator’s inability to effectively administrate perpetuates the negative image of teachers in society.

Teachers who fail to live up to their professional responsibilities should be removed from the classroom. This is the absolute truth. The fact that they remain, however, is not the fault of teacher’s unions. Please do not misunderstand me. I like my administrators. I do, however, feel that there is misinformation in the public about the way the tenure system works and who is responsibile for its enforcement.

Finally, Davea, you are correct. I have little knowledge of jobs outside of education (although my work at a university did give me some insight). I suppose it roughs me up a little bit that people who do not work in education (including government officials) feel that they have a right to question my qualifications when I have never presumed to demand change within their fields. Such is the life, I suppose, of the public servant. I do hope that we, as a community of people of many backgrounds and jobs, can continue to focus on what is best for kids. That has been and will continue to be my mission all along.

Jim...I have have a B.S. in Math and I work at a corporation...I don't know what kind of engineer you are but you need a raise I guess. Our engineers start at 60K. If a teacher get their masters they can make 60K but a veteran teacher with only a graduate degree will not make that until they are close to retiring. I don't think for a minute that I'm better than anyone else because of my career choice. I just got lucky in the fact that corporations pay engineers good money. Not saying its right but I'm not going to turn in down. I also understand that we make our own community so I put most of my money back into the community and our schools...I was raised better than that. We should just pay everyone the same salary no matter what they do... problem solved....If we don't start paying more taxes we are going to live in a CRAP neighborhood. Anyone with a high school education knows that.

If you can read this, thank a teacher!

As I've been reading these comments, I've been disheartened by the less than constructive nature of a number of them. Calling each other names does nothing to solve the bigger issue of how to determine a fair method for teacher compensation. I don't think that anybody who questions the current system for teacher compensation really doesn't care about our children or dislikes teachers. I also believe that the teachers are being hurt by not having a contract since they currently make less than they did two years ago (they don't like having to take a pay cut anymore than anyone else). Instead of attacking each other, we should all be listening. There are good ideas for improving this issue coming from both sides of this debate. Whether of not you agree with the union (and there are some things I take issue with), the teachers have a right by law to be represented by a union and the school district is refusing to negotiate with this union.

Jim: you should check your reading comprehension. Sam11 says he is an engineer too (and then qualifies that by saying HE is a civil engineer). I bet 622 is just as embarrassed about you as you are of them

Jim - I had quite the opposite experience. My child was not getting his needs met at an expensive private school. So I pulled him from private school and enrolled him in ISD 622. I would gladly attend a meeting as a satisfied parent in the district.